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 KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile

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KenCat
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PostSubject: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:43 am

Sorry about the organization of the below post, I just let my thoughts flow unto the keyboard. ha


First and foremost, I must include the fact that I AM liberated. Like the Buddhist, I hold no possessions and no fear of pain or death -- because of this, I am not able to be manipulated as much as materialistic consumers by their oppressive institutions. We must show the oppressors that no matter who is voted in, we are ungovernable.

I am an anarchist, a communist, a free egalitarian. I have been a libertarian socialist, in every way but the name, for most of my life -- I believe most people are. I have never been a consumerist, and I attribute my knowledge of political philosophy to the fact that I've never worried about the 10% sales on $100 jeans and therefore had time to think. I am living and observing myself live an evolutionary change in thought. I went from being a democratic socialist, a Marxist, a small "L" libertarian to a libertarian socialist: an autonomist to anarcho syndicalist to anarcho communist.

I hold many philosophical similarities to anarcho collectivists and syndicalists alike, though there are vital differences which I hold as well. I hold the belief that patriarchy must be abolished, but also ALL hierarchy -- in other words, capitalism, wage slavery (wage labor), supremacy (racial and sexual), money and other forms of exploitation must go.

I have recently joined collectives, convergences, and other groups to battles capitalism and after doing so, I have become far more "leftist" than my traditional anarcho communists. I oppose both private AND public property (but sympathize with the latter) on the grounds that the land was here before us, we own no material objects (except, perhaps, ourselves -- this is subjective and debatable).

(Anarcha) feminism, anarcho communism, indigenous struggle, black liberation, gay liberation and many other things have attributed to my inspiration -- things that some anarchists seem forget about. I don't identify as a "post-leftist", because the term itself is in fact very "leftist". I am a "post-left-leftist" [read "Your Politics Are Boring as Fuck"]. I see too many culturally conservative anarchists, who claim they want freedom, yet they do not live their philosophy to the extent that is possible.

Live, love, and satisfy your artistic and creative needs to the fullest extent possible! Show that class struggle will eventually bring inner and outer freedom, show that the seriousness of the opposition to the murderous capitalism can currently and will eventually bring joyous euphoria and liberation to its participants.


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:30 am

Wait, I remember seeing you saying on AU that you believed that Sweden was socialist? Get this Leninist 'transitional stage with classes' bullshit out of your head, and into the sewer. That's not to say that you believe in it, simply that using the terminology incriminates Marxism, and is wrong. Blanquism sucks.
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:10 am

Stos wrote:
Wait, I remember seeing you saying on AU that you believed that Sweden was socialist? Get this Leninist 'transitional stage with classes' bullshit out of your head, and into the sewer. That's not to say that you believe in it, simply that using the terminology incriminates Marxism, and is wrong. Blanquism sucks.

Where did I say Sweden was socialist? I might have said it was a social democracy, but that's simply capitalism with welfare. And where did I say anything about transitional stages of classes?! hahah
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:37 am

yeah, it was probably me who said that lol ^_^

o.o one of your influences is crimethinc, too...=]

"I have never been a consumerist, and I attribute my knowledge of political philosophy to the fact that I've never worried about the 10% sales on $100 jeans and therefore had time to think."

^^ wait, could you clarify that...?
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:40 am

solpacvoicis wrote:
yeah, it was probably me who said that lol ^_^

o.o one of your influences is crimethinc, too...=]

"I have never been a consumerist, and I attribute my knowledge of political philosophy to the fact that I've never worried about the 10% sales on $100 jeans and therefore had time to think."

^^ wait, could you clarify that...?

Consumerism takes up most of consumerists time, correct? Because I'm not such a consumer, I have time to think and learn.
And yes, I've read just about every text uploaded to the CrimethInc site. ha


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:43 am

ohh, okay, that makes sense...

i think my entire family would be headed down to the mall if we heard there was a sale on any type of clothing o.o;; it sucks to have to think about that stuff, though...
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:47 am

solpacvoicis wrote:
ohh, okay, that makes sense...

i think my entire family would be headed down to the mall if we heard there was a sale on any type of clothing o.o;; it sucks to have to think about that stuff, though...

Although clothing should be free (you'd die in the winter without any), it's logical to buy it while cheaper if it's only provided for money. I'm making more and more of my own clothes, while buying from used places/co-ops/etc.

My friends and I may renovate an abandoned house and open up a community free store.


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Stos
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:56 am

KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
Wait, I remember seeing you saying on AU that you believed that Sweden was socialist? Get this Leninist 'transitional stage with classes' bullshit out of your head, and into the sewer. That's not to say that you believe in it, simply that using the terminology incriminates Marxism, and is wrong. Blanquism sucks.

Where did I say Sweden was socialist? I might have said it was a social democracy, but that's simply capitalism with welfare. And where did I say anything about transitional stages of classes?! hahah
Well, social democracy is a term with its own problems ('democracy'. Heh), but you did say:
"SOME forms of SOCIALISM (a phase into communism, which has different varieties, such as Marxism) have to do with government, though a person can be communist and even anarchist at the same time."
Also, here we go:
"Democratic Socialism is generally state socialism which you elect into office (versus revolution). Sweden is democratic socialist."
Though 'state socialism' is pretty much an oxymoron, being that 'socialism' and 'communism' mean the same thing (well, they did until Lenin decided to mess around with the language...)
Quote :

(Anarcha) feminism, anarcho communism, indigenous struggle, black liberation, gay liberation and many other things have attributed to my inspiration -- things that some anarchists seem forget about.
Awesome.


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:00 am

Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
Wait, I remember seeing you saying on AU that you believed that Sweden was socialist? Get this Leninist 'transitional stage with classes' bullshit out of your head, and into the sewer. That's not to say that you believe in it, simply that using the terminology incriminates Marxism, and is wrong. Blanquism sucks.

Where did I say Sweden was socialist? I might have said it was a social democracy, but that's simply capitalism with welfare. And where did I say anything about transitional stages of classes?! hahah
Well, social democracy is a term with its own problems ('democracy'. Heh), but you did say:
"SOME forms of SOCIALISM (a phase into communism, which has different varieties, such as Marxism) have to do with government, though a person can be communist and even anarchist at the same time."
Also, here we go:
"Democratic Socialism is generally state socialism which you elect into office (versus revolution). Sweden is democratic socialist."

Sweden is a social "democracy" (I thought I should have put quotes around it before, ha) -- I understand that democratic socialism (which is redundant, depending on what form of socialism you're talking about) and social democracy are different concepts. It was a mess-up.

Your first quote had nothing to do with transitional stages of class or Sweden.. And I stand by it. =]

Labadie stated on many occasions that "all anarchists are socialists, but not all socialists are anarchists".


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:02 am

yeah, seriously, socialism has become too complex of a word...it means a theory of thought (with various branches, usually split into the famous "utopian socialism" and "scientific socialism" and then further along those lines...)...it can be the same thing as communism....or it can be the transition to communism

and seriously? let me know when, so i can try to help ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 am

KenCat wrote:
Labadie stated on many occasions that "all anarchists are socialists, but not all socialists are anarchists".
Of course, Blanquists are socialists too.

solpacvoicis wrote:
yeah, seriously, socialism has become too complex of a word...it means a theory of thought (with various branches, usually split into the famous "utopian socialism" and "scientific socialism" and then further along those lines...)...it can be the same thing as communism....or it can be the transition to communism
Eh, I just use it as Marx did, that is, both 'socialism' and 'communism' meaning the same thing. A 'transition to socialism' is a Blanquist concept, pretty much. Well, at least, unless you count the fact that communism is international, and thus before the revolution was internationally successful it would be referred to as something else ('rule of the proletariat', or, to use Marx's more famous but less used term, 'dictatorship of the proletariat'), however, I wouldn't see how it could be described as a 'transitional stage'.


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:09 am

Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Labadie stated on many occasions that "all anarchists are socialists, but not all socialists are anarchists".
Of course, Blanquists are socialists too.

Okay? I don't understand why you put in the first quote. >.<
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:10 am

actually, wouldn't any movement where a small group of people seize power of the government to change it as they will blanquist? in that way, some socialists are blanquists, but not all blanquists are socialists lol
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:13 am

solpacvoicis wrote:
actually, wouldn't any movement where a small group of people seize power of the government to change it as they will blanquist? in that way, some socialists are blanquists, but not all blanquists are socialists lol
As far as I know, Blanqui was a socialist, in that he believed in socialism after a minority revolution took power and educated the masses or whatever. Either way, Blanquist socialists.

KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Labadie stated on many occasions that "all anarchists are socialists, but not all socialists are anarchists".
Of course, Blanquists are socialists too.

Okay? I don't understand why you put in the first quote. >.<
Basically because Blanquists (or Lassalleans, but they've pretty much died out by now) being socialists is pretty much the major reason why all socialists are not anarchists. Well, them along with many utopians (many utopians meaning many out of the utopians, there aren't many utopians), and perhaps religious socialists. (state, capital, and church, wasn't it?)


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:13 am

solpacvoicis wrote:
actually, wouldn't any movement where a small group of people seize power of the government to change it as they will blanquist? in that way, some socialists are blanquists, but not all blanquists are socialists lol
Blanquism is a term referring to how a governmental socialist revolution comes about. Some socialists are Blanquists, all Blanquists are socialists.



Stos wrote:
Basically because Blanquists (or Lassalleans, but they've pretty much died out by now) being socialists is pretty much the major reason why all socialists are not anarchists. Well, them along with many utopians (many utopians meaning many out of the utopians, there aren't many utopians), and perhaps religious socialists. (state, capital, and church, wasn't it?)
Agreed. The quote said all anarchists are socialists, while socialists are not all anarchists.


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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:15 am

okay, thanks for clearing that up lol
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:19 am

KenCat wrote:
I hold many philosophical similarities to anarcho collectivists and syndicalists alike, though there are vital differences which I hold as well. I hold the belief that patriarchy must be abolished, but also ALL hierarchy -- in other words, capitalism, wage slavery (wage labor), supremacy (racial and sexual), money and other forms of exploitation must go.
Of course. Though presumably you're using 'hierarchy' here in the stricter form, rather than referring to, say, the fact that a 1 year old doesn't get to make all of his own decisions for himself?
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:31 am

Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
I hold many philosophical similarities to anarcho collectivists and syndicalists alike, though there are vital differences which I hold as well. I hold the belief that patriarchy must be abolished, but also ALL hierarchy -- in other words, capitalism, wage slavery (wage labor), supremacy (racial and sexual), money and other forms of exploitation must go.
Of course. Though presumably you're using 'hierarchy' here in the stricter form, rather than referring to, say, the fact that a 1 year old doesn't get to make all of his own decisions for himself?

A one year-old needs legitimate authority*, not hierarchy -- hierarchy is a grouping of people or things on a ladder of power (example: Pope, bishop, priest, etc). Also, it is encouraged to make decisions with others once social/political hierarchy is gone, just not FOR others.


*An example of legitimate authority is yanking a child out of the way of a oncoming car. Were you not to act in an "authoritative" manner, the child would have died. Illegitimate authority is voting for someone to gain more political power over yourself, therefore creating social and political inequality. Most authority is seen as illegitimate and telling your child not to get run over by a car is usually not seen as authoritarian anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:48 am

KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
I hold many philosophical similarities to anarcho collectivists and syndicalists alike, though there are vital differences which I hold as well. I hold the belief that patriarchy must be abolished, but also ALL hierarchy -- in other words, capitalism, wage slavery (wage labor), supremacy (racial and sexual), money and other forms of exploitation must go.
Of course. Though presumably you're using 'hierarchy' here in the stricter form, rather than referring to, say, the fact that a 1 year old doesn't get to make all of his own decisions for himself?

A one year-old needs legitimate authority*, not hierarchy -- hierarchy is a grouping of people or things on a ladder of power (example: Pope, bishop, priest, etc). Also, it is encouraged to make decisions with others once social/political hierarchy is gone, just not FOR others.


*An example of legitimate authority is yanking a child out of the way of a oncoming car. Were you not to act in an "authoritative" manner, the child would have died. Illegitimate authority is voting for someone to gain more political power over yourself, therefore creating social and political inequality. Most authority is seen as illegitimate and telling your child not to get run over by a car is usually not seen as authoritarian anyway.
Of course, I have no problems with that (though I do see the Catholic church persisting for a bit, since we can't really just go and say, "Well, you catholics have to stop being catholic now, alright?" However, the Cat'lick church is a reactionary organization (crud, it's even officially for capitalism, except with all of the capitalists being Cat'lick. Heh), so I would see it folding fairly soon)
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:02 pm

Stos wrote:
Of course, I have no problems with that (though I do see the Catholic church persisting for a bit, since we can't really just go and say, "Well, you catholics have to stop being catholic now, alright?" However, the Cat'lick church is a reactionary organization (crud, it's even officially for capitalism, except with all of the capitalists being Cat'lick. Heh), so I would see it folding fairly soon)

hehe Cat'lick.

I thought you were a De Leonist (De Leon was a part of the Labor Party?).
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:12 pm

KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
Of course, I have no problems with that (though I do see the Catholic church persisting for a bit, since we can't really just go and say, "Well, you catholics have to stop being catholic now, alright?" However, the Cat'lick church is a reactionary organization (crud, it's even officially for capitalism, except with all of the capitalists being Cat'lick. Heh), so I would see it folding fairly soon)

hehe Cat'lick.

I thought you were a De Leonist (De Leon was a part of the Labor Party?).
No, Socialist Labour Party, there's a huge fucking difference. Yes, I am a De Leonist, a Marxist, and thus an anarchist too. Well, there's a central governing authority on economic mattters, in order to streamline the economy, but power flows from the bottom up (and, of course, this committee is democratically elected, with each member representing a separate industry. To make this democratic, there would be recalls, and voting in the workplace), and pretty much participatory/direct, decentralized democracy on social issues (blacks would vote if there was significant demand to make them slaves, women would vote on abortion, etc)
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:21 pm

Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
Of course, I have no problems with that (though I do see the Catholic church persisting for a bit, since we can't really just go and say, "Well, you catholics have to stop being catholic now, alright?" However, the Cat'lick church is a reactionary organization (crud, it's even officially for capitalism, except with all of the capitalists being Cat'lick. Heh), so I would see it folding fairly soon)

hehe Cat'lick.

I thought you were a De Leonist (De Leon was a part of the Labor Party?).
No, Socialist Labour Party, there's a huge fucking difference. Yes, I am a De Leonist, a Marxist, and thus an anarchist too. Well, there's a central governing authority on economic mattters, in order to streamline the economy, but power flows from the bottom up (and, of course, this committee is democratically elected, with each member representing a separate industry. To make this democratic, there would be recalls, and voting in the workplace), and pretty much participatory/direct, decentralized democracy on social issues (blacks would vote if there was significant demand to make them slaves, women would vote on abortion, etc)

I meant the socialist labor party. And I used to be a Marxist, I understand what it is. =p
I also understand that Marx advocated the abolition of the state in order to reach a communist state of society.. (Most) anarchists believe in communism, they simply don't believe that changing a dictatorship or a state will bring communism.

Anarchists are those who oppose ("an" of anarchist) leaders ("archos") and in place want a (usually socialist, consensus based) democracy, where you can vote for change, not for rulers (whether originally "good" or not).
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm

KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
Of course, I have no problems with that (though I do see the Catholic church persisting for a bit, since we can't really just go and say, "Well, you catholics have to stop being catholic now, alright?" However, the Cat'lick church is a reactionary organization (crud, it's even officially for capitalism, except with all of the capitalists being Cat'lick. Heh), so I would see it folding fairly soon)

hehe Cat'lick.

I thought you were a De Leonist (De Leon was a part of the Labor Party?).
No, Socialist Labour Party, there's a huge fucking difference. Yes, I am a De Leonist, a Marxist, and thus an anarchist too. Well, there's a central governing authority on economic mattters, in order to streamline the economy, but power flows from the bottom up (and, of course, this committee is democratically elected, with each member representing a separate industry. To make this democratic, there would be recalls, and voting in the workplace), and pretty much participatory/direct, decentralized democracy on social issues (blacks would vote if there was significant demand to make them slaves, women would vote on abortion, etc)

I meant the socialist labor party. And I used to be a Marxist, I understand what it is. =p

Anarchists are those who oppose ("an" of anarchist) leaders ("archos") and in place want a (usually socialist, consensus based) democracy, where you can vote for change, not for rulers (whether originally "good" or not).
Yes, that's pretty much it. Of course, consensus based democracy has its limitations, but it's necessary to some extent. For example, if 10 workers want to work on a building, but 5 don't, the 5 shouldn't be force to do it. However, the 10 can feel free to do so. Of course, this doesn't mean that the minority should have more power than the majority either. However, as far as I know, anarchism isn't too opposed to democracy as long as the rank-and-file have the most power in it. Pretty much, industries need to co-operate, and thus representatives from the industries (workers, who get the same wages as all other workers there) are elected in order to co-operate with representatives from other industries in order to organize co-operation and such on different levels. If workers dislike them, they can sack 'em.
Also, you're not a Marxist any more? Why not?
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:43 pm

Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
KenCat wrote:
Stos wrote:
Of course, I have no problems with that (though I do see the Catholic church persisting for a bit, since we can't really just go and say, "Well, you catholics have to stop being catholic now, alright?" However, the Cat'lick church is a reactionary organization (crud, it's even officially for capitalism, except with all of the capitalists being Cat'lick. Heh), so I would see it folding fairly soon)

hehe Cat'lick.

I thought you were a De Leonist (De Leon was a part of the Labor Party?).
No, Socialist Labour Party, there's a huge fucking difference. Yes, I am a De Leonist, a Marxist, and thus an anarchist too. Well, there's a central governing authority on economic mattters, in order to streamline the economy, but power flows from the bottom up (and, of course, this committee is democratically elected, with each member representing a separate industry. To make this democratic, there would be recalls, and voting in the workplace), and pretty much participatory/direct, decentralized democracy on social issues (blacks would vote if there was significant demand to make them slaves, women would vote on abortion, etc)

I meant the socialist labor party. And I used to be a Marxist, I understand what it is. =p

Anarchists are those who oppose ("an" of anarchist) leaders ("archos") and in place want a (usually socialist, consensus based) democracy, where you can vote for change, not for rulers (whether originally "good" or not).
Yes, that's pretty much it. Of course, consensus based democracy has its limitations, but it's necessary to some extent. For example, if 10 workers want to work on a building, but 5 don't, the 5 shouldn't be force to do it. However, the 10 can feel free to do so. Of course, this doesn't mean that the minority should have more power than the majority either. However, as far as I know, anarchism isn't too opposed to democracy as long as the rank-and-file have the most power in it. Pretty much, industries need to co-operate, and thus representatives from the industries (workers, who get the same wages as all other workers there) are elected in order to co-operate with representatives from other industries in order to organize co-operation and such on different levels. If workers dislike them, they can sack 'em.
Also, you're not a Marxist any more? Why not?

Consensus is not giving more power to the minority, it's showing their view equally. So if 7845324 wanted to nuke the UK and 2 didn't, both opinions would be shown next to each other and why. Usually it has nothing to do with "yes or no", "black or white", "candidate A or B" elections. Electing a ruler to decide things (that you may agree with) is not democracy.

I, as well as most anarchists I know, have come to the conclusion that equality and classlessness cannot be reached with a state (which holds an unequal power itself) and rulers who are in a completely different class: the ruling class. It's simple, really.

So I stayed a communist, I just became an anarchist.
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PostSubject: Re: KenCat/Cheveyo's political profile   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:54 pm

KenCat wrote:
I, as well as most anarchists I know, have come to the conclusion that equality and classlessness cannot be reached with a state (which holds an unequal power itself) and rulers who are in a completely different class: the ruling class. It's simple, really.
Yes, which is pretty much Marxism. Well, it depends pretty much on one's definition of the 'state', which, for example, lead to the question by Bakunin which I've already quoted.
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