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Laura
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Age : 27
Location : Berlin

PostSubject: Hello friends   Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:52 pm

I am Laura and I am from Germany. I am not sure about politics. I think there should be no poor people in any country. I like Germany very much, but there are some problems here. Maybe you can tell me who I am.
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WeiWuWei
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Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:36 pm

Welcome aboard, comrade. Very Happy

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solpacvoicis



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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:01 pm

hello!

(my sister says "guten tag! wie geht's? ich komme aus united states! ich lerne meine deutsch!")
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:43 pm

sups lady. going by what you said its not really going to be an accurate description. You need to figure out economic policies and such. Where in germany are you from. my family is from around München. Wie gehts?
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:34 am

Das ist ja super! Wir können also Deutsch sprechen! Ich und meine Familie kommen alle aus Berlin.
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Spinner

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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:40 am

Well, in order for this to be an effective discussion, start by answering the question "What does your ideal society look like?"
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:22 pm

In the perfect society all people have a good living standard and enough free time for leisure.
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Spinner

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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:37 pm

Do you think the, for example, American system of Capitalism, Democracy, etc. is effective in creating this society?
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Stos
De Leonist


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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:52 am

Spinner wrote:
Do you think the, for example, American system of Capitalism, Democracy, etc. is effective in creating this society?
What democracy? scratch
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:03 am

Spinner wrote:
Do you think the, for example, American system of Capitalism, Democracy, etc. is effective in creating this society?

No, life in USA is horrible for many people! Even people who have a good living standard are forced to work overtime, otherwise they will be fired.
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Stos
De Leonist


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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:58 am

Laura wrote:
In the perfect society all people have a good living standard and enough free time for leisure.
Sounds like socialism (to clarify, I use the word 'socialism' in the same sense as Marx, that is, to mean the same thing as 'communism').
Anyways: I would recommend this to see how an anarchist society would function: http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secIcon.html (It's a great site, except when it comes to Marx and Marxism. Engels did have slightly different views to Marx (who was an anarchist, as Rubel points out), so I don't know about how good it is when it comes to him).

Of course, that's only a single model. I'm a De Leonist, all of De Leon's writings are available here. De Leonism was only established in 1905, so his works of 1905 to later are pretty much the most important, and the SLP's collection of his articles on Industrial Unionism (in the Selected Topics section) are parts of the SIU idea, which was one of his most important ones.

"Socialism is that social system under which the necessaries of production are owned, controlled and administered by the people, for the people, and under which, accordingly, the cause of political and economic despotism having been abolished, class rule is at an end. That is socialism; nothing short of that."
-Daniel De Leon

"Without political organization, the labor movement cannot triumph; without economic organization, the day of its political triumph would be the day of its defeat."
-Daniel De Leon

Then there's Leninism, but IMO all of Lenin's good ideas (in State and Revolution, and he did not implement any of them, except perhaps for a few that were quickly gotten rid of a while before the Civil War) were anarchistic, and the rest were a good path to Stalinism.
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:31 am

I believe in a socialist system, where all people have a good living standard, no one is unemployed and all have access to the best education and the best health care system the country can provide, while at the same time big companies are owned by all workers and managment collectively and share the fuits of labor not only with each other but also with people who work in different fields. So the factory would pay some taxes on the goods they produce, however the value that has been produced and is left after being taxed will be distributed in a fair way between all the people who worked on it.

Will I get full access now?
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:16 am

Laura wrote:
Das ist ja super! Wir können also Deutsch sprechen! Ich und meine Familie kommen alle aus Berlin.

Mein Deutsch ist zu Ihrem unterschiedlich. Leute vom hohen Norden machen sich über uns von Byern wegen lustig, wie wir sprechen. Traurig, wenn mein Deutsch nicht ist aber Englisch ist meine erste Sprache gut.
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:27 pm

ruadhan wrote:
Laura wrote:
Das ist ja super! Wir können also Deutsch sprechen! Ich und meine Familie kommen alle aus Berlin.

Mein Deutsch ist zu Ihrem unterschiedlich. Leute vom hohen Norden machen sich über uns von Byern wegen lustig, wie wir sprechen. Traurig, wenn mein Deutsch nicht ist aber Englisch ist meine erste Sprache gut.

Wenn Deutsch nicht deine Muttersprache ist, dann bist du recht gut! Wie lange hast du es gelernt?
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Alek4A

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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:08 pm

Laura wrote:
I believe in a socialist system, where all people have a good living standard, no one is unemployed and all have access to the best education and the best health care system the country can provide, while at the same time big companies are owned by all workers and managment collectively and share the fuits of labor not only with each other but also with people who work in different fields. So the factory would pay some taxes on the goods they produce, however the value that has been produced and is left after being taxed will be distributed in a fair way between all the people who worked on it.

Will I get full access now?

welcome, comrade Smile

your already a socialist

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Spinner

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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:19 pm

Your economic values are pretty agreeable, I don't have too much objection. What about social values? What do you think the role of the State and government are? In your ideal society, is the State abolished? What about police? Laws? etc.
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Stos
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:19 am

Spinner wrote:
Your economic values are pretty agreeable, I don't have too much objection. What about social values? What do you think the role of the State and government are? In your ideal society, is the State abolished? What about police? Laws? etc.
If there is a classless society, then of course there is no state.
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:30 am

Spinner wrote:
Your economic values are pretty agreeable, I don't have too much objection. What about social values? What do you think the role of the State and government are? In your ideal society, is the State abolished? What about police? Laws? etc.

In the ideal system there is no state. But I am not an idealist. I am a realist.

In a system with a government, it should intervene a lot and regulate to prevent workers from being exploited and guarantee them a good living standard.
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:23 am

Stos wrote:
Spinner wrote:
Your economic values are pretty agreeable, I don't have too much objection. What about social values? What do you think the role of the State and government are? In your ideal society, is the State abolished? What about police? Laws? etc.
If there is a classless society, then of course there is no state.

Like ideas such as State Socialism don't exist....
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Stos
De Leonist


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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:27 am

Spinner wrote:
Stos wrote:
Spinner wrote:
Your economic values are pretty agreeable, I don't have too much objection. What about social values? What do you think the role of the State and government are? In your ideal society, is the State abolished? What about police? Laws? etc.
If there is a classless society, then of course there is no state.

Like ideas such as State Socialism don't exist....
State socialism is a horrible term. If we're talking about Blanquism, then no, there will simply be a new ruling class after the revolution. Also, of course, if we're going to use the word 'state', why not use the Marxian definition 'class rule'? So stop using it. Razz
Also, I love the whole, "The Russian Revolution would have worked if Lenin didn't get ill" thing. Whose fucking idea was it to rest the fate of the revolution upon the shoulders of one man anyways?
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Black_Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:55 pm

Laura wrote:
In the ideal system there is no state. But I am not an idealist. I am a realist.

I thought you were a communist. Was i wrong?

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"Here then is the problem which we present to you. Stark and dreadful and inescapable: Shall we put an end to the human race; or shall mankind renounce war?"
--Albert Einstein--Bertrand Russell--
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Laura
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PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:17 pm

Black_Cross wrote:
Laura wrote:
In the ideal system there is no state. But I am not an idealist. I am a realist.

I thought you were a communist. Was i wrong?

I am a Titoist.
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Black God

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Location : With my friends and revolutionary comrades...

PostSubject: Re: Hello friends   Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:47 pm

:3c Hello and welcome to the forum comrade. Ah yes...the state...a mere implement of control of which shall still control the minds of the people no matter how good it is.

I say, let the people go, introduce to good intentions, and they shall follow...
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